The time of receipt was there and the frequencies were also appended on this log sheet.  I then at that time in Crane, Indiana made a written entry on the upper right-hand margin of this log sheet concerning the fact that I, as Officer in Charge, of the date in question, had sighted and verified that this was a recorded original entry of the winds  execute message. 

I also suggest today that NAVSECGRU have one of our representatives at Crane, Indiana dig through our many files and see if they can recover this log sheet; it is still there.  I wish today I had made a copy and brought it back with me to Washington.

At that time I searched in depth also to see if I could find the copy of the message itself, there having been an original and two carbon copies recorded at the time of intercept out at Station M and clearly marked as to the time, frequency, and sine.

I was unable to find any trace of that recorded message. However, I did find numerous other messages copied at Station M on that date and during my watch period. 

So, gentlemen, I lay it to rest.  It is somewhere.  Somebody took it out of there. 

During the period of the Pearl Harbor Inquiries by the Joint Congressional Committee and Rear Admiral Hewitt’s Naval Court of Inquiry, Captain Kramer first testified he had definitely seen that winds execute message that was received by me on 4 December.  And he stated, unequivocally, that the teletype copy–which I had personally transmitted from Station M to our downtown 20G terminal–had it in hand and that it contained the key code group HIGASHI NO KAZEAME. 

Now, this was true, because Kramer was quoting from his actual sighting of the message when first received. 

Later, when he and Captain Safford attempted to locate that message–that is, the teletype copy of my log sheet–they had all disappeared.  In later hearings and sessions and during cross examinations by the Committee’s counsel, Kramer became confused.  And when confronted with testimony of others who either failed to either back up their earlier acknowledgement of having seen the message, or had merely been informed of the receipt of the message, their memory suddenly lagged.  And consequently, his recollection became confused.

His final account of the receipt and train of events varied from his earlier testimony.  In fact, it appeared to me as I was following the news events daily of the hearings, it appeared to me that the Committee counsel was attempting to make a mockery of Kramer’s stumbling effort to put the matter back into retrospect.

At the same time, both Kramer and Stafford were being subjected to a ceaseless bombardment of interrogation interviews off the record between the hearings by a certain counsel of the Hewitt Inquiry.  I believe this was a Mr. Siebold.  I may be wrong but my recollection was that it was Mr. Siebold.  He was a very vicious and aggressive individual, who acted more like a criminal prosecutor than an impartial investigative counsel.  This individual subjected Safford to the same prosecution style interrogations that had been applied to Kramer.  Kramer was made to look like a fool.  So was Safford.  Kramer broke down, as a matter of fact, physically so; he went out to the hospital at that time. 

Safford, particularly in the local news media, was made to look like he was some kind of an insane person. It was reported in the Times-Herald at the time.  Safford advised me later that he felt the purpose of this counsel’s efforts was to get him to change or modify his former testimony, such as they had succeeded and accomplished in Kramer’s case.  Safford even kept notes of the various meetings he had had with this counsel and his impressions of them.  And he showed them to me. 

It was during this period that Safford, in desperation, in order to vindicate himself to sustain his earlier statements about the existence of the winds message, went digging through his files where he recovered the evidence that it was RT who had intercepted and recorded that message.  So he looked me up, discovered I was on board, and asked me to drop over to his office. Which I did. 

His secretary called me to his office this particular day, and then she left.  Therein we began a series of meetings during which I met with him at least three or four times.  And incidentally, each time we were there I was alone.  There was no one else present.  I don’t know whether he did this by intent.  But at no time was any other person present during these meetings I held with Captain Safford.  Except for the first one; I think his secretary was just within reach for a while and then she left. 

But during these meetings, we went over his files, his notes, and they left no doubt in my mind that the Captain knew what he was talking about; he had everything correct. And he had identified that I was the one who had done it.  Of course, I admitted I did.